1. fact checking required - don't just spout some crap off because you think it might be true
2. no one line posts that add nothing to the discussion - if you are going to do this, go to every other thread we have and post like an idiot.
3. please, and i'm literally begging here, put some thought in your posts
Okay, so I was thinking the other day what is the difference between the driving skill of the guys in top tier teams and the also rans? Is the gap that big or is the money top tier teams have along with chemistry important. Is there a way to find out other than putting say Tony Raines in the 20 car and seeing what happens? What do you all think?
Personally I don't believe the talent gap to be all that big. I think Tony Raines could race up front every week IF he had the same relationship with Zippy that Tony Stewart has.
Second,
Wow. What a topic. Funny thing is, this topic constantly comes up in conversation everytime my friends and I sit around the firepit, drink, and talk Nascar. It's such a broad opinion based discussion. But always fun, and informative.
I just don't know what to type. But I think chemistry is only "part" of the equation. Whether its a big part or small part, IMO, depends on the individual.
Let me throw this out to ya. What about the Kyle Busch vs. JJ. Yeley in the #18 situation? Do you think this is a case of different skill sets of drivers being placed in a similar enviroment?
And what about the Everham/Gordon chemisty vs the Everham/Kahne chemisty? Do you think this may be a case of same chemistry but different style driver? (of course, taking into concideration of the different car manufactures).
I may be going in circles here, but atleast I'm going counterclockwise!!! But I just can't get a "starting line" on where to start this discussion.
Here are my questions about Yeley vs. Kyle in the 18. Was J.J. getting top equipment or was he the "test car" for JGR? Is there even such a thing as "test car" in a NASCAR race? Is the talent gap from Kyle to Yeley really that big? JGR won all of 4 races last year. Were they having a hard time adjusting to the CoT?
Way too many variables in there for me to simply come to the conclusion that Kyle is that much better than Yeley.
Second,
Wow. What a topic. Funny thing is, this topic constantly comes up in conversation everytime my friends and I sit around the firepit, drink, and talk Nascar. It's such a broad opinion based discussion. But always fun, and informative.
I just don't know what to type. But I think chemistry is only "part" of the equation. Whether its a big part or small part, IMO, depends on the individual.
Let me throw this out to ya. What about the Kyle Busch vs. JJ. Yeley in the #18 situation? Do you think this is a case of different skill sets of drivers being placed in a similar enviroment?
And what about the Everham/Gordon chemisty vs the Everham/Kahne chemisty? Do you think this may be a case of same chemistry but different style driver? (of course, taking into concideration of the different car manufactures).
I may be going in circles here, but atleast I'm going counterclockwise!!! But I just can't get a "starting line" on where to start this discussion.
The Evernham Gordon relationship is different then the evernham kahne relationship based on the fact that Evernham was Gordon's crew cheif while he is kahne's car owner which should provide a different sort of relationship then that of the driver crew chief. Another example would be Denny Hamlin and Jason Leffler Leffler could not do anything in the 11 car a few years ago they put Denny Hamlin in the car and it sits on the pole at Phionex but Leffler has run well in the nationwide series since then so does he really have less talent or bad chemistry i guess we won't know
intelligent enough for you?
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"It's all fun and games until somebody wrecks a racecar" Larry McRenyolds
The Evernham Gordon relationship is different then the evernham kahne relationship based on the fact that Evernham was Gordon's crew cheif while he is kahne's car owner which should provide a different sort of relationship then that of the driver crew chief. Another example would be Denny Hamlin and Jason Leffler Leffler could not do anything in the 11 car a few years ago they put Denny Hamlin in the car and it sits on the pole at Phionex but Leffler has run well in the nationwide series since then so does he really have less talent or bad chemistry i guess we won't know
intelligent enough for you?
Yeah, I suppose. The problem is, the three of us have the same question and no one outside of the people involved seems to have an answer. How great is the talent gap between guys like Hamlin, Stewart, Gordon and Yeley, Raines and Leffler?
Feel free to bring another question or stay tuned for mine.
WOW Great Topic,
I dont have any answers LOL, BUTT I want to comment on the perceived Talent of a driver and what I feel makes a good one.
The biggest thing I,ve seen in any driver at any level which can/will put him in front of his fellow races is the ability to reconize what he wants/feels in a car and communicate it to his crew.
Jeff Gordon at one time was a great example of this. Many time he would start off a race with a not so good car and slowly during the race get a feel for what he/the car needed to be better. He also had a relationship/communication/understanding with his crewchief that allowed him to COMMUNICATE what was needed, he lost some of that when Ray left and now he just cant seem to get a handle on what he needs to feel in the COT on the new Goodyears. I cant beleive I said nice things about Jeff, LOL.
The OTHER kind of Great driver is the ones who can take a car thats not what he really needs to go Fast but can adjust his driving to make the car better. Good examples are Dale Earnhardt Sr. and currently Kyle Busch.
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WOW Great Topic,
I dont have any answers LOL, BUTT I want to comment on the perceived Talent of a driver and what I feel makes a good one.
The biggest thing I,ve seen in any driver at any level which can/will put him in front of his fellow races is the ability to reconize what he wants/feels in a car and communicate it to his crew.
Jeff Gordon at one time was a great example of this. Many time he would start off a race with a not so good car and slowly during the race get a feel for what he/the car needed to be better. He also had a relationship/communication/understanding with his crewchief that allowed him to COMMUNICATE what was needed, he lost some of that when Ray left and now he just cant seem to get a handle on what he needs to feel in the COT on the new Goodyears. I cant beleive I said nice things about Jeff, LOL.
The OTHER kind of Great driver is the ones who can take a car thats not what he really needs to go Fast but can adjust his driving to make the car better. Good examples are Dale Earnhardt Sr. and currently Kyle Busch.
though they sometimes can try to take a bad car and push it to much think about how many times before this year Kyle Busch spun his car out on his own another driver that did this and has admitted it's his problem was Kasey Kahne pushing a car for a top 10 when he could only get a top 20
__________________
"It's all fun and games until somebody wrecks a racecar" Larry McRenyolds
though they sometimes can try to take a bad car and push it to much think about how many times before this year Kyle Busch spun his car out on his own another driver that did this and has admitted it's his problem was Kasey Kahne pushing a car for a top 10 when he could only get a top 20
Yes, Exactly what I,m talking about!!! They have learned just how far thay can push a not so good car and how much they can get out of it, so now they are getting as much as possible out of the car.
Jeff Gordon is yet again a perfect example of this, his first year in Cup he wadded up over a dozen cars learning his and the cars limits ( he wasnt learning how to drive he had already done that ) suddenly at the begining of his second year in Cup he found The Feel quit stuffing cars and started Winning. Shrubbie has done much the same thing, I believe Kasey would have also but the Dodges got out there in left feild and screwed up their baseline a couple years ago and he's still searching.
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That's certainly a quality that I really didn't consider. Every driver has needed to find that "edge" with the new car and it's quite possible Kyle has found that and knows when his car can win. Even at Darlington when it seemed he was trying to knock the wall down every lap, he appeared to be in control.
It is quite fun watching the teams learn this car and the things they try to make these cars handle. I have noticed the Dodges seem to be crabbed out a lot more.
I think there are different caliber of drivers. JJ Yeley isn't or never will be a Kyle Busch. I suppose you have to be good to reach the Cup Series, but not everyone there is going to reach Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, etc talent level.
The crew chief/driver dynamics are very important, but that also ties in with the caliber of the team. How would Chad Knaus fair with MWR? (haha other than cheating). Would Jimmie Johnson be as good with another cc?
What baffles me is that HMS had this COT seemingly figured out last year and this year well you see for yourselves. Yes, they are in top 10 in points, but they have not performed well imo.
Kyle is on fire this year, but the proof for me will be if he keeps the fire going for years to come. Being consistent is important. I don't mean winning the Cup every year, just staying in the top pack.
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