I am new to NASCAR,so please excuse me for this novice question. What is the engine configuration used in NASCAR? What is the output? Has the capacity been the same from a long time? Do manufacturers run their factory team or just act as engine suppliers? I know that these are carburreted engines....any reasons why they hesitate to switch over to the fuel inejction? Sorry..too many questions..but would appreciate the answers.
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Originally Posted by ovalpiston
Hi,
I am new to NASCAR,so please excuse me for this novice question. What is the engine configuration used in NASCAR? What is the output? Has the capacity been the same from a long time? Do manufacturers run their factory team or just act as engine suppliers? I know that these are carburreted engines....any reasons why they hesitate to switch over to the fuel inejction? Sorry..too many questions..but would appreciate the answers.
NASCAR motors are V-8 5.7ltr 350 cu.in. They do allow up to 358 cu.in. to account for overboring a motor. They've been limited to that size for quite a while. Output is a closely guarded secret but it's believed to be around 700-800hp depending on setup and around 500hp for a restrictor plate motor. Factories support privately owned teams. The reason for Carbs is that they are much easier to police than fuel injection.
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Thanks for responding.Is engine configuration same for both the BUSCH cup and the Nextel Cup? When you say some use an over-bored 358 Cu. in, that is a good 600 cc increase in the capacity,which is quiet substantial, how are these cars allowed to run an 600cc + over the regulations? I have heard that the cast iron block used in the engines havent changed since 1968, is this true?
I mean no offence,but the technology aspect of the motorsports has always interested me more than anything else.F1 has been in the forefront of technology and not surprisingly its also been the most expensive form of motorsports ever.Are there any particular reason why an "open formula" is not used in NASCAR? Why is foreign manufacturer participation not encouraged? When the regulations and technology used doesnt change,how does this benefit in the R & D for the road cars?sorry for so many questions...but NASCAR is new to me..
Thanks for responding.Is engine configuration same for both the BUSCH cup and the Nextel Cup? When you say some use an over-bored 358 Cu. in, that is a good 600 cc increase in the capacity,which is quiet substantial, how are these cars allowed to run an 600cc + over the regulations? I have heard that the cast iron block used in the engines havent changed since 1968, is this true?
I mean no offence,but the technology aspect of the motorsports has always interested me more than anything else.F1 has been in the forefront of technology and not surprisingly its also been the most expensive form of motorsports ever.Are there any particular reason why an "open formula" is not used in NASCAR? Why is foreign manufacturer participation not encouraged? When the regulations and technology used doesnt change,how does this benefit in the R & D for the road cars?sorry for so many questions...but NASCAR is new to me..
The maximum engine size is 358 cubic inches and virtually all engines are that size. All the blocks do not date to 1968, some were just released this year and are no longer cast iron but cast from CGI. The engine rules are designed to limit the amount of spending and keep costs down. There is a tremendous amount of technology that goes into the engines within the restrictions. Improving performance while not being allowed to change to fuel injection, 4 valves etc. is just as demanding as improving it within those expanded parameters. NASCAR does not exist to be an R&D source for road cars, it is a racing series. Foreign manufactures are not discouraged from running in NASCAR. Only Toyota has submitted an engine design and it was approved. No other manufactures have expressed interest.
F-1 is continually adding restrictions to try to contain costs and is far from open to all new technologies. Every year more restrictions are added and the engines are starting to all have mostly the same specs just as NASCAR engines do. Comparing the two racing series is comparing apples to oranges as they have differing rules and restrictions. A formula one team, engineers and driver could not move to NASCAR and dominate any more than a NASCAR team could in F-1. I know of NASCAR engineers that have traveled to europe to speak at tech symposiums at the invitation of F-1. The F-1 engineers were amazed at the detail and creativity of the NASCAR technology. Equally the NASCAR engineers are amazed at what is being accomplished in F-1. There are former F-1 engineers on NASCAR teams. It takes lots of information and knowledge to compare the two series. It is fine to have a preference towards one series but an informed person will realize that lots of hard work and the latest technology is applied in both.
If you are really interested in NASCAR technology I can try to answer more questions or refer you to some of the little information available. The technical information is not widely available as it is proprietary.
You are right about the newer restrictions being placed in F1,the high costs of R&D is one of the factors.Last year,teams like Mclaren-Mercedes,Renault and Ferrari spent an estimated 450million $ each ,the top teams employ more than 500 people in their factories..making it the most expensive form of motorsports,and unfortunately,it has been that way from a longtime.Bernie ecclestone likes to beleive that making the engines last for 2 weekends and stopping further development on the engine side is gonna cut the costs,but that is far from the truth,each year the costs increases,in the mid-90's top teams used to spend 300-350 million $ each year,its much higher now.F1 has also come under increasing criticism in the recent years for not being a great spectator sport,unlike the NASCAR ,IRL etc and being more of a technical showcase,to some extent,that is true as well,the high use of high-tech electronics,driver aids ,turbulence,grooved tires and very very high downforce are a few factors to blame.
Back to NASCAR,so what are the engine restrictions which are placed on cars competing in the BUSCH series? Is there a restriction on the number of cylinders used and the configuration speaking in general?How much do these cars weigh? Last but not the least,i had an oppurtunity to get close to a few NASCAR competition chevy's on display in washington DC auto show,the slicks on those cars very very hard, how many compounds are they allowed to use over a race weekend?
Some of the top NASCAR multi car teams have budgets approaching 80 to 100 million and that doesn't include the value of manufacturer R&D. Many employ 200 or more people, not manufactures but multi car teams. I would guess all the chevrolet teams together would have a similar budget to an F-1 manufacturer and employ many more people. This would be for 30 or so cars though, not the few that F-1 teams have (6 or 7?). I haven't talked to anyone about Busch engines, I know they have about 100 less hp and use roller cams. All engines have to be V-8s 358 cid or less. I believe Busch cars are 400 lb lighter and have a shorter wheelbase. Someone else here could prolly answer these questions better than I.
No competition NASCAR cars go to car shows, dealerships etc. They have "show cars" that are used for that. Most are outdated or used up cars that are made cosmeticly similar to the latest race cars. Racing tires harden with age so all tires more than a year old are very hard. Goodyear supplies tires at each race, no team can buy them anywhere else or take them with them after the race. NASCAR and goodyear decide on the tire compound for each race. Teams used to get the used tires after a race, maybe Goodyear makes a showcar tire now, I am not sure.
Even most NASCAR fans don't know how much development has been put into the engines. The latest figures I have heard for cup are 860hp. Horsepower has almost doubled in the past 20 years with no change in the basic engine design. That is some serious engineering.
Some of the top NASCAR multi car teams have budgets approaching 80 to 100 million and that doesn't include the value of manufacturer R&D. Many employ 200 or more people, not manufactures but multi car teams. I would guess all the chevrolet teams together would have a similar budget to an F-1 manufacturer and employ many more people. This would be for 30 or so cars though, not the few that F-1 teams have (6 or 7?). I haven't talked to anyone about Busch engines, I know they have about 100 less hp and use roller cams. All engines have to be V-8s 358 cid or less. I believe Busch cars are 400 lb lighter and have a shorter wheelbase. Someone else here could prolly answer these questions better than I.
No competition NASCAR cars go to car shows, dealerships etc. They have "show cars" that are used for that. Most are outdated or used up cars that are made cosmeticly similar to the latest race cars. Racing tires harden with age so all tires more than a year old are very hard. Goodyear supplies tires at each race, no team can buy them anywhere else or take them with them after the race. NASCAR and goodyear decide on the tire compound for each race. Teams used to get the used tires after a race, maybe Goodyear makes a showcar tire now, I am not sure.
Even most NASCAR fans don't know how much development has been put into the engines. The latest figures I have heard for cup are 860hp. Horsepower has almost doubled in the past 20 years with no change in the basic engine design. That is some serious engineering.
beth
860bhp is a serious figure..it is really amazing how much they have managed to extract out of a naturally aspirated 5.8l V8 with carbs and pushroad. And i agree with you about the "serious engineering " part,it wouldnt have been possible otherwise.
Yes,the tires which i came across must have been just "show tires" as you say..they were harder than regular production tires and hence my question.But do the teams have the luxury of selecting their compounds for each phase of race according to their strategy? or do they all get one standard compound?
And about F1,each constructor can field a maximum of 2 cars and can carry one extra spare car,they can manufacture a maximum of 4 chasis per year,the engines will have to last for 2 weekends.Like you said in your previous post,to curb the spiralling costs and speed,the engines have been regularly downgraded,today they run a 2.4ltr V8(though the layout can be anything),they are naturally aspirated and produce close to 820 bhp with rev limiter set at 19000,until 2005,these were naturally aspirated 3.0ltr V10 producing almost 900bhp,the cars cannot weigh more than 600kgs including the driver after the completion of the race.Unfortunately,these so called "restrictions" have done very little to help the non-factory cars,most of the private teams have a budget of around 350 million$ per season and that is way short of what the manufacturer teams spend.
When you say multi-car teams ,how many cars usually each of these teams have?Are the manufacturers responsible for only the engines?Who produces the rolling chasis?What exact R&D do each of these private teams do after getting an engine and chasis from the manufacturer? Since NASCAR's doesnt tackle corners,i beleive traction control and launch control are not used or are they? what other electronic aids do the drivers get?Finally,what transmissions do these cars use?Is it completely automatic?or paddle shifting sequential shift or seamless shifts? or is it manual?
860bhp is a serious figure..it is really amazing how much they have managed to extract out of a naturally aspirated 5.8l V8 with carbs and pushroad. And i agree with you about the "serious engineering " part,it wouldnt have been possible otherwise.
Yes,the tires which i came across must have been just "show tires" as you say..they were harder than regular production tires and hence my question.But do the teams have the luxury of selecting their compounds for each phase of race according to their strategy? or do they all get one standard compound?
And about F1,each constructor can field a maximum of 2 cars and can carry one extra spare car,they can manufacture a maximum of 4 chasis per year,the engines will have to last for 2 weekends.Like you said in your previous post,to curb the spiralling costs and speed,the engines have been regularly downgraded,today they run a 2.4ltr V8(though the layout can be anything),they are naturally aspirated and produce close to 820 bhp with rev limiter set at 19000,until 2005,these were naturally aspirated 3.0ltr V10 producing almost 900bhp,the cars cannot weigh more than 600kgs including the driver after the completion of the race.Unfortunately,these so called "restrictions" have done very little to help the non-factory cars,most of the private teams have a budget of around 350 million$ per season and that is way short of what the manufacturer teams spend.
When you say multi-car teams ,how many cars usually each of these teams have?Are the manufacturers responsible for only the engines?Who produces the rolling chasis?What exact R&D do each of these private teams do after getting an engine and chasis from the manufacturer? Since NASCAR's doesnt tackle corners,i beleive traction control and launch control are not used or are they? what other electronic aids do the drivers get?Finally,what transmissions do these cars use?Is it completely automatic?or paddle shifting sequential shift or seamless shifts? or is it manual?
omg how many cars!!!!...lol they are allowed 5 now... 4 i think starts next year.... however some teams get around it by haveing satelite teams... teams that are basically teammates... using engines and chasis provided by the mother team... such as Ginn racing is to Hendrick... so now you have 8 full teams... all pooling data about engines and set ups... hendrick provides engines to Ginn and a few other teams... hendrick gets track data from the teams they provide chasis and engines for... and they prepare at least two cars for each event... sometimes when they trash the two they take ... sometimes they will send back to the shop and get another similiar car... some tracks are so unique they have to have a special car to run well there,... so that is two cars... some teams will fabricate 20 or so new cars per year... some never hit the track.... if they feel it is inferior they can retire the car before it is raced and make a show car out of it... or sell it to a winston west or nascar north series driver.... so you can see where it really adds up on expenses....
__________________ Auto racing, bull fighting and mountain climbing are the only real sports... the rest are just games........ Earnest Hemmingway
860bhp is a serious figure..it is really amazing how much they have managed to extract out of a naturally aspirated 5.8l V8 with carbs and pushroad. And i agree with you about the "serious engineering " part,it wouldnt have been possible otherwise.
Yes,the tires which i came across must have been just "show tires" as you say..they were harder than regular production tires and hence my question.But do the teams have the luxury of selecting their compounds for each phase of race according to their strategy? or do they all get one standard compound?
And about F1,each constructor can field a maximum of 2 cars and can carry one extra spare car,they can manufacture a maximum of 4 chasis per year,the engines will have to last for 2 weekends.Like you said in your previous post,to curb the spiralling costs and speed,the engines have been regularly downgraded,today they run a 2.4ltr V8(though the layout can be anything),they are naturally aspirated and produce close to 820 bhp with rev limiter set at 19000,until 2005,these were naturally aspirated 3.0ltr V10 producing almost 900bhp,the cars cannot weigh more than 600kgs including the driver after the completion of the race.Unfortunately,these so called "restrictions" have done very little to help the non-factory cars,most of the private teams have a budget of around 350 million$ per season and that is way short of what the manufacturer teams spend.
When you say multi-car teams ,how many cars usually each of these teams have?Are the manufacturers responsible for only the engines?Who produces the rolling chasis?What exact R&D do each of these private teams do after getting an engine and chasis from the manufacturer? Since NASCAR's doesnt tackle corners,i beleive traction control and launch control are not used or are they? what other electronic aids do the drivers get?Finally,what transmissions do these cars use?Is it completely automatic?or paddle shifting sequential shift or seamless shifts? or is it manual?
As I said there is no choice for tires. Teams all run the same tires, same compound all weekend and they are what NASCAR and goodyear mandate. Teams build their own cars or buy from a few chassis builders.
The rpms in F-1 are amazing. One little know fact is the piston speeds are relatively close on F-1 and NASCAR engines. Naturally aspirated engines like certain piston speeds to develop maximum volumetric efficiency. This is also why there was a shift to 8 cylinders when the displacement was lowered in F-1.
Multi car teams usually have 2 to 4 cup teams and one or two Busch teams. The cup teams can have 10 to 12 cars each, I am not sure in Busch but would guess at least 5 cars. A full multi car team could have as many as 50 or more cars but this may drop with the COT eventually. There is no restriction on number of cars built.
The manufacturer only supplies the heads, manifold and block in a cast semi machined state so they can be modified as required by the team engine departments. All other parts plus many manifolds are made by the teams or specialty race part manufactures. The teams build and design the engines within the rules and the available head and block castings. TRD (toyota) has built some complete engines to try to jump start their program but I know of no other mfg doing that. The manufacturers work with the team engine depts and many drag race engine builders and cylinder head specialists to develop the blocks and heads. They then are submitted to NASCAR for approval. Nascar has many specs that the parts must conform to. Chevrolet submitted 3 designs before NASCAR approved their new design. NASCAR trys to keep the engines comparable to prevent one mfg to have an advantage. NASCAR impounds several cars as they finish selected races and dynos them to check the power of different mfgrs.
NASCAR has corners, they are all just left handed except the 2 road course tracks. Some cars used traction control years ago but as soon as it was discovered it was banned. Other than electronic ignition, radio, camera and transponders I don't believe any other electronics are allowed. Drivers must handle throttle control. Chassis adjustments must be manual during pit stops, no electronic shocks etc. They use manual transmissions and final gearing is mandated by NASCAR at each track as a way to control engine speed.
Did you mean to say the F-1 weight was a maximum? or is it a minimum? Thanks for the info on F-1, it is very interesting indeed. I was amazed at the honda oval piston engine too. I love creativity.
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